RAF Waddington Drone Protest update
September 5, 2011
By admin
Helen John spent the weekend at RAF Waddington in the first step of her protest against armed drones and the RAF’s plans to bring 39 Squadron to RAF Waddington to control the UKs Reaper drones currently in Afghanistan.
Helen’s plan is to be at RAF Waddington as often as she can, holding a vigil from now until 3rd October when a national week of protests against drones is planned. She aims to set up a permanent camp after 3rd October.
Several local contacts were made during the weekend 3rd & 4th September, with local groups and individuals expressing an interest in supporting Helen and attending a camp. Local people wishing to be put in contact with others in Lincoln and surrounding area can contact Lincoln Underground Collective for meetings, discussions and information. Local people have expressed concern about the enormous amounts of money being spent attacking countries overseas while the NHS and education in the UK are being radically cut.
Anyone wanting to meet up with Helen during her visits to RAF Waddington, please contact Yorkshire CND on 01274 730 795 to arrange a meeting.
The police have said toilet facilities provided by the RAF at The Wave are available and the owner of The Sentry Post snack bar within the WAVE personally arrived at an arranged meeting and welcomed trade from protesters. If his business acumen is any good he’ll be stocking up on ‘peace hippy’ flags and sing-along-tunes like “Kum ba yah”. Oh……hold on……someone shouting in the background. Lentil tea apparently. He drinks Lentil tea, please? Thank you.
Pics from the weekend…..
Just arrived….
Look North news interview
First airing for first banner…..
Waddington’s latest Reaper. Well……..looks like it needs a bit of work yet and a couple more props but bound to be an interesting asset at the entry gates to RAF Waddington….
For more info on drones see: http://dronewarsuk.wordpress.com/
and
30 Responses to RAF Waddington Drone Protest update
clusterbombs are great. on September 6, 2011 at 8:27 pm
I’m considering staging a protest alongside you, Have you room for about 500 or so?
It will be called “ex-armourers against crustys” (Yes armourers are weapons technicians who work with bombs and you loons are the crustys)
Swifty on September 7, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Ahh..back up….Armourer…Dont you mean bomb hed? As used in many theatres…Stick fingers in ears…Walk down runway..stomp around…Raf armourers do it in pumps.
Swifty on September 10, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Whats the difference between an armourer and a 1000lb bomb?
Only certain 1000lbers are retarded.
Gimps on September 6, 2011 at 8:30 pm
Stellar turnout people. Did anyone actually turn up as we never noticed. Still, so long as it keeps you busy eh?
Chrlie Fox on September 7, 2011 at 9:17 am
I find comparing the armed forces to Nazism offensive. Please remove your banner from the vehicle and this website.
If it hadnt been for the same armed forces, you, Im sure, would quite happily of been a concentration camp guard, or more likely one of their victims.
admin on September 7, 2011 at 10:22 am
I find comparing the armed forces to Nazism offensive. Please remove your banner from the vehicle and this website.
Check out pages 2 & 107: http://www.airpowerstudies.co.uk/UAV-Book.pdf
If it hadnt been for the same armed forces, you, Im sure, would quite happily of been a concentration camp guard, or more likely one of their victims.
Today’s armed forces are not the ‘same armed forces’ that defended this country in WWII and I find it offensive that you suggest they are the same. Our armed forces in WW11 fought, all too often with their lives for this country, its own people and others. Today’s armed forces are little more than mercenaries,recruited to keep the profit and loss accounts of arms, weapons & their systems manufacturers looking good and paying dividends to their shareholders. I find it offensive that anybody is prepared to go out and kill so BAE, Raytheon, Lockheed, EADS, Paradigm, etc. etc etc. to name but a few can keep upping their bank balances. Offensive? Look in the mirror matey.
Swifty on September 7, 2011 at 1:15 pm
A guard or a victim….Think you need to sort out your confusion there sunshine.
Washington Irving on September 7, 2011 at 12:18 pm
Hello,
I’m trying to work out exactly what it is that you are against. Half of your writing seems to suggest it is simply the use of RPAS as you feel it devolves responsibility for the use of lethal force. Other comments made on your website however suggest that you simply hate our armed forces and that your protest against the reaper is simply a way of demonstrating your contempt for our boys and girls who are giving their lives to bring others freedom. “Today’s armed forces are little more than mercenaries,recruited to keep the profit and loss accounts of arms, weapons & their systems manufacturers looking good and paying dividends to their shareholders”
You also seem oblivious to the primary role of the Reaper which is to provide intelligence and surveillance in a battle zone where enemy combatants cowardly melt into the civilian population as soon as they have planted traps which maim and kill not only our forces but also the local population.
Also the ‘lady’ in the red body warmer in your photos looks like a rat (http://blogs.sundaymercury.net/weirdscience/rat.jpg)
admin on September 7, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Half of your writing seems to suggest it is simply the use of RPAS as you feel it devolves responsibility for the use of lethal force.
Yes, devolved responsibility is an issue. Theatres and classification of areas of use is also an issue. An additonal issue is future development in terms of the global arms race. Who ultimately benefits apart from private enterprise? Why have the CAA just done a u-turn on permissions to operate ‘RPAS’ within UK airspace? To allow Qinetiq to show them off for ‘sales purposes’. Who is going to be buying them? Only the ‘good guys? I’m sure no-one would believe that. Primarily, I personally am against the use and future development of armed drones.
your protest against the reaper is simply a way of demonstrating your contempt for our boys and girls who are giving their lives to bring others freedom.
Not at all. I have contempt for the fact that as long as government keeps shoving money into their banks and paying them bonuses and pensions they’ll keep obeying instructions and orders without meaningful question, no matter what questions, legal, ethical or moral may be raised about their actions. I am and always will be in support of the defence of the country, however the current taskings for our military are very tenuously linked to ‘defence’, if at all.
I have far more contempt for the Ministry of Defence’s recruitment programs and the government propaganda that they buy into than I do for those it manages to suck in.
You also seem oblivious to the primary role of the Reaper which is to provide intelligence and surveillance
Hardly. But I do recognise that politicians who ultimately sanction the use of aerial spying systems are just as capable of using them against their own electorate for divisive means as they are against a so called ‘enemy’ in an international conflict area or war zone. I believe some means of governance of the use of RPAS should be clarified and properly defined before it becomes a case of trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. Are we going to be shipping our drones overseas to a so called ‘ally’ to assist in the repression of its population, when a high enough price is paid or there are material benefits to be had. Is calling in our Reapers and its future relatives going to be as easy as shouting for a taxi to carry out what should be an internal policing job? Think money, keep thinking money and think profit if you are in any doubt about how our policy will be shaped.
Also the ‘lady’ in the red body warmer in your photos looks like a rat
And the point or relevance of your above observation is what exactly?
Swifty on September 7, 2011 at 8:43 pm
I’ve had it with you and your emotional constipation….
Washington Irving
Richard on September 8, 2011 at 11:01 am
What a load of twaddle. Tell all the politicians to stop argueing then we might have peace. Until then, get the Reaper going and see what the Turbanned Mob are doing to kill our lads (who were put there by said politicians).
admin on September 8, 2011 at 11:37 am
Tell all the politicians to stop argueing then we might have peace.
LOL. A comedian, eh? Our politicians are all agreed. We can’t have peace – it doesn’t match ‘war’ in terms of profitability.
Swifty on September 10, 2011 at 3:40 pm
What? Your saying our politcians put the turbanned mod there to kill our lads? Blimey….Bit far that one mate. But no…Hold on..
Charles on September 9, 2011 at 12:21 am
I have read your arguements, as well as the arguements from the otherside. I can honestly say I personally do not support your cause as I believe if we and our Allies do not utilise the Reaper’s technology then our enemies will and then we are left in a state where our government would not allow innocent civillians to be used as a shield as is happening in Libya/Afghanistan. I feel that the use of IED’s are far more inhumain than a Reaper which will have a team of highly skilled and trained intelligence operatives marking targets as they do using various other systems in Jets currently used.
Now my opinion counts for just as much as any other Taxpayer and British Citizen and the beauty of living in this country is my freedom of speech, in person, via the internet or any other means of communication. I agree your right to protest regardless of how I feel about the protest subject, however I do not agree slanderous comments which have been used against individuals to be very fair. I personally feel your arguments are against the RAF, UK Government, Businesses targeting MoD, and US Government. Somehow included in your itinery of targets is Mr Robinson and his small business which I feel to be very absurd. As I understand you claim he is welcoming you into his business to purchase food and use the facilities but you are going against him via this site. If I were a customer to The WAVE I could now be persuaded not to go as the thought of a camp could be very intimidating, how many potential customers feel like this? With the way you are showing hostility towards aircraft spotters then is it a wonder that arguements have ensued since the announcement of the peace camp? In this case I feel Spotters will be hostile towards you as the hobby is dying a slow death already with the cuts being made and this is attacking the future of the hobby. I mean to reiterate that in another way, if your hobby was swimming and the government closed all the public pools in the UK, then you would have to spend a lot more money buying a pool in your house, which would annoy you and cause you inconvenience.
Now there will not be a simple solution to this other than build a wall between protesters and spotters, however if the protesters allow the spotters to congregate and go about there spotting without getting in there way or upsetting them, I am sure as adults the Spotters will ignore the protesters and allow them to continue the protests in peace (with 1 or 2 comments about the protesters said amongst themselves as I am sure vice versa will happen).
Swifty on September 10, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Hobby dying a death? You dont get it do you…Why is your hobby dying a death? I’d have a look at the UK/US strategic planning map up to 2047 if I was you for a little pointer.
As to the rest. The air spotters from a certain forum arrived on this site and attacked all and sundry in the most coarse and threatening manner. I’d read the first few posts from them before you carry on with that line matey.
Charles on September 10, 2011 at 10:12 pm
Swifty,
You are assuming Aircraft Spotting is a hobby of mine. I personally am not a ‘spotter’ but I know a few friends who are. I have read into the future of the UK/US strategic planning and although on paper this looks promising I would not take that as gospel with all the cuts being made by both governments. Besides all the planning in the world does not foresee all potential threats in the future, it’s one power no one possesses.
I can not comment further as I am not the individuals involved and do not understand fully the hostility towards you albeit what I’ve read here and elsewhere. I did not use these comments to form my own opinions I just read them to help me grasp a basic understanding that they are defensive of the WAVE and Mr Robinson as I know the WAVE is one of only a few areas designed for spotters to go and there is obviously grievances with your protest. I can not say if it is directed at the Protesters or the subject of the Protest, but you deciding to make the WAVE your original meeting point would not have helped the situation in all fairness.
admin on September 10, 2011 at 4:27 pm
I have read your arguements, as well as the arguements from the otherside. I can honestly say I personally do not support your cause as I believe if we and our Allies do not utilise the Reaper’s technology then our enemies will
Fair enough that your mind’s made up, although you won’t have seen any argument from the ‘other side’ on here, just threats and irrelevant personal abuse and pointless insult. One thing puzzles me though, and let this be a rhetorical question, what’s with the point that if we don’t use the technology our enemies will? I don’t understand the ‘either/or’ scenario. Our enemies of the moment…..all though god knows who it’ll be next month or year when ‘call me Dave’ decides he wants another ‘Blair moment’, don’t have the technology, yet. But given enough attacks from us they will certainly aspire to it and who knows, with a little help from China or Russia, will probably achieve it. Not sure how the ‘us or them’ point fits in.
and then we are left in a state where our government would not allow innocent civillians to be used as a shield as is happening in Libya/Afghanistan. I feel that the use of IED’s are far more inhumain than a Reaper which will have a team of highly skilled and trained intelligence operatives marking targets as they do using various other systems in Jets currently used.
Firstly, sorry to state the obvious but if we weren’t attacking them the human shield issue wouldn’t be what it is. I do note that you feel it more humane to have your family killed, home destroyed or limbs blown off by a Reaper than an IED. Personally I wouldn’t choose either but if it had to be one I’d prefer it to an accident of my own sides making than an assassination by a foreign government.
I do not agree slanderous comments which have been used against individuals to be very fair.
I assume you mean libelous, and if you were in fact being very fair you wouldn’t be making accusations of things which most certainly haven’t happened. In the light of your accusation perhaps you could say where you believe this libel occurred. I have all the comments on this subject to hand and would not deem to dispose of any of them. If you’d like a copy of them in order to research your evidence please don’t hesitate to let me know.
As I understand you claim he is welcoming you into his business to purchase food and use the facilities but you are going against him via this site.
Because he is saying one thing to Helen John in person and something entirely different on the internet. He is deliberatly lying, to what end I have no real idea, but for as long as he wants to continue playing silly buggers he won’t be alone.
If I were a customer to The WAVE I could now be persuaded not to go as the thought of a camp could be very intimidating,
And where would you have got that idea from?
With the way you are showing hostility towards aircraft spotters then is it a wonder that arguements have ensued since the announcement of the peace camp?
What hostility? All I can see in my files are pages and pages of threats and personal abuse and insults from ‘aircraft spotters’, which has been so bad that even the moderators on their own forum have told them that they are leaving themselves open to criminal charges. Please do show where the retaliation has been? In view of your accuastions that’s surely the least you can do?
In this case I feel Spotters will be hostile towards you as the hobby is dying a slow death already with the cuts being made and this is attacking the future of the hobby.
Have you read any of the RAF’s own or political forecasts which point out that unmanned aircraft will replace a huge number of manned ones? I would have thought that UAVs themselves were the biggest threat to a military air spotters hobby………or will they just switch their enthusiasm for aircraft to watching machines?
however if the protesters allow the spotters to congregate and go about there spotting without getting in there way or upsetting them,
Any suggestion of interference, violence, arson, bombing, shooting, or any other form of physical attack has only ever come from ‘spotters’. I can’t imagine where you have seen anything which would suggest differently. But feel free to send a link!
Not one single person from any protest side has ever responded in kind to the attempts at intimidation and shameful personal abuse which has been levelled continuously by plane spotters since 25th August.
Thank you.
Charles on September 10, 2011 at 11:04 pm
No I would not have seen much on this site opposing your arguments, and yes I saw the threats before comments were closed however You’d be all too willing to find the negatives from any one against you which is obvious as it provokes discussion which ultimately is a goal that you desire to get media coverage for your cause which is your right and is helping support for your cause. The us or them comment comes from the risk of us having a conflict with a developed nation which has the technology to copy or potentially has already the technology to use against us or any nation we are allied to.
The human shield comment is something which was happening before we intervened in Libya, and was also used within the Taliban strongholds against the Afghan Army using innocent civilians to protect each side (mainly the Taliban). So regardless of our ‘attacking’ it will still happen because these people do not care about the innocent civilians involved in the conflicts where as in the developed west it would be unheard of. I have more faith that a team of intelligence staff would be able to target enemy facilities rather than civilians which is something an IED can not do as these devices are indiscriminate and are often put in places where civilians use including children’s parks, schools, medical centre’s, roads and almost anywhere they can be hidden. I feel they are more unlawful than anything used currently in theatre of war.
Libelous means something untrue, to that extent are you claiming to believe your own comments towards Mr Robinson are libelous or would you agree they are slanderous and detrimental to Mr Robinson either way unless you know Mr Robinson which obviously some of the Aircraft Spotters do, your comments have very little substance and have possibly upset him (My opinion as I would be upset if the comments were directed at me).
I felt intimidated after reading comments again negative comments from spotters, but I believe the threat of violence is real and as a passive person I would not like to go where potential violence is a threat. The aura of protests (Recent proof with the Riots nationwide) attract violence. The original planners for this protest may not envisage violence but if a mob of people turned up intent on destructive and aggressive behavior then it goes from peaceful to unlawful (as did the protest march in Tottenham Hale) with the protesters being to blame as it was the excuse individuals are looking for to act irresponsible. I could only imagine this thought going through Mr Robinson’s mind as well as other local business owners and the Base itself.
I would like to pose a question in response to the last comment you made as being of a youthful age I will have only read the media’s interpretation of the truth but was there not an incident at Brize Norton Many yeas ago where Protesters attempted to bring down an RAF Hercules using objects launched at it and storming the runway when aircraft was on approach, also trespassing on MoD land to protest and finally was Helen John not arrested, Charged and Jailed as a result of protesting? That does not seem lawful or peaceful to me. I again state this is what I have seen in the media’s interpretation (which as everyone knows is not 100% reliable).
Thank You
admin on September 11, 2011 at 11:02 am
You’d be all too willing to find the negatives from any one against you which is obvious as it provokes discussion which ultimately is a goal that you desire to get media coverage for your cause which is your right and is helping support for your cause.
Charles, I would dearly love to believe that ‘provoking a discussion’ brings worthwhile or useful media coverage to anything anywhere. The media will in 99% of all cases cover any topic with its own agenda. If I thought there was any hope of influencing the media to present any subject objectively, it certainly wouldn’t be by bringing attention to the fact that one side of a ‘discussion’ was threating violence and being abusive and insulting. Such a situation does nothing more than detract from the issues.
The us or them comment comes from the risk of us having a conflict with a developed nation which has the technology to copy or potentially has already the technology to use against us or any nation we are allied to.
In which case presumably if both us and them had the technology we would both be using it. Our using it isn’t going to stop them using it.
The human shield comment is something which was happening before we intervened in Libya, and was also used within the Taliban strongholds against the Afghan Army using innocent civilians to protect each side (mainly the Taliban).
The human shield concept has been used by all since the Middle Ages at some stage or another. I assume when you refer to the Afghan Army, you’re talking about the current army which was set up as a result of our attack on Afhanistan as obviously, prior to that Afghanistan hadn’t had an army for 20 years. I have to admit I can’t remember Libya’s history of human shields before we launched our latest jolly over there. Perhaps you could remind me?
So regardless of our ‘attacking’ it will still happen because these people do not care about the innocent civilians involved in the conflicts
I’m afraid you’ve lost me altogether there Charles. Are you saying that ‘these people’ invest in human shields they have no concern for when they’re not at risk of being attacked or don’t believe they will be attacked?
have more faith that a team of intelligence staff would be able to target enemy facilities rather than civilians which is something an IED can not do as these devices are indiscriminate and are often put in places where civilians use including children’s parks, schools, medical centre’s, roads and almost anywhere they can be hidden.
Civilians are being deliberately targeted by our selected targets in Afghanistan. Whatever means they use is for their attacks on civilians is irrelevant. It’s a moral point not a technical one. I’m afraid the argument that just because our chosen enemy is using amoral methods to attack its own people deliberately, we should be overlooked for killing civilians accidentally with no accountability, doesn’t work for me personally. The ‘they do it on purpose, we only do it by accident’ argument is ridiculous in my book.
feel they are more unlawful than anything used currently in theatre of war.
We are not at war in Afghanistan. There is no ‘theatre of war’. Our politicians and media may like to yap on about our ‘war’ and our ‘heroes’ etc. to keep whipping up public support for their activities, but we are not involved in a war. By legal definition we are part of a domestic policing action, whereby our puppet leader of Afghanistan invites us to assist in crushing resistance to him.
Libelous means something untrue, to that extent are you claiming to believe your own comments towards Mr Robinson are libelous
Not for a single minute. Far from it. Libelous actually means ‘in the written form’ not the ‘spoken’. I’m simply pointing out that any comments I’ve made about him have been written not verbal, therefore any suggestion of slander would be misplaced.
or would you agree they are slanderous and detrimental to Mr Robinson
See above. And no. Not detrimental in anyway. More helpful I should say.
either way unless you know Mr Robinson which obviously some of the Aircraft Spotters do, your comments have very little substance and have possibly upset him (My opinion as I would be upset if the comments were directed at me).
I don’t need to know someone in person to be able to read and understand what they are writing. As for any written comment having no substance I’d have to disagree. How do you think Mr.Robinson managed to recruit his ‘rent a mob’ of potential thugs, if not through the written word?
The aura of protests (Recent proof with the Riots nationwide) attract violence.
Nonsense. If you want to get into completely unfounded generalisations I’d suggest the ‘aura of protest’ attracts derogatory personal insult based on the ‘get a job, have a bath and lay off the weed’ level of comment. You can’t have it both ways. Either protesters are ‘lazy, smelly and unemployed benefit scroungers’. Or they’re violent thieves and rioters. The perception from those objecting against protesters at Waddington has never suggested a fear or rioting or violence. You are sitting somewhere removed trying to credit them with thoughts and ideas they have never expressed.
The original planners for this protest may not envisage violence but if a mob of people turned up intent on destructive and aggressive behavior then it goes from peaceful to unlawful (as did the protest march in Tottenham Hale) with the protesters being to blame as it was the excuse individuals are looking for to act irresponsible.
The same could be said of any football match. I’ve never heard that used as an excuse to ban football. Incidentally, didn’t the protest in Tottenham Hale kick off following the police shooting of one individual, the lies told following the shooting and then their subsequent brutal attack on a 16 year old girl?
I would like to pose a question in response to the last comment you made as being of a youthful age I will have only read the media’s interpretation of the truth but was there not an incident at Brize Norton Many yeas ago where Protesters attempted to bring down an RAF Hercules using objects launched at it and storming the runway when aircraft was on approach, also trespassing on MoD land to protest
I’ve never heard of protesters trying to ‘bring down a Hercules using objects launched at it’, but I do know there were runway incursions at Brize Norton and Fairford during the 2003 attack of Iraq.
and finally was Helen John not arrested, Charged and Jailed as a result of protesting?
As far as I know Helen John was never arrested or convicted of any protest action connected with airfields involved in the attack on Iraq, but she has been arrested and convicted as a result of other protest actions. I don’t know of any of her activities that haven’t been entirely peaceful. Three women were put on trial a few years ago for smashing up a Hawk jet and doing £20 million of damage to it. They, ultimately were found not guilty of criminal damage despite admitting the damage. The law is a complex issue and it isn’t always illegal to do vast amounts of physical damage to something. I wouldn’t say that breaking what is commonly understood to be the law is a bad thing.
Here’s the point, if I walk past your house and see through the window that you are trying to strangle somebody inside, I smash your window to get in and stop you. I am not guilty of criminal damage to your window. I have ‘Lawful Excuse’. If I walk past your house and smash a window to try to steal something I am guilty of criminal damage to your window. I have no ‘Lawful Excuse’. If I believe you are imminently going to strangle somebody and I break a window to get in and stop you, it’s not necessarily a given that I am guilty or innocent of criminal damage. I believe I have a Lawful Excuse but the courts need to look at the excuse to decide whether or not my excuse is valid. The same principal is examined by the courts in protest contexts all the time and as far as I’m concerned the facility should never be removed. It’s the only way to hold governments in check.
With no way of examining government actions or choices in court the concept of democracy wouldn’t exist. Now you can berate all those who challenge the law all you like. You won’t change my mind, I’m afraid. Just because governement huddles in little offices, dreaming up new laws to impose on people and then lays their decisions on what is legal or illegal down in writing with no democratic or parliamentary process whatsover, the process is seriously flawed and people should always bring cases to the courts for decisions on the legality or illegality of any situation under question.
Your apparent blind acceptance that ‘the law must be obeyed’ is obvious. Thankfully, we are not all the same.
I have seen you try every way possible to defend, excuse, justify, reduce and dismiss threats of violence and intimidation by air spotters and find ways of blaming protesters for any difficulties which have arisen. Your position is very obvious and that’s your right, but I have a question for you in closing:
What is your opinion on the extra judicial murders being carried out by our allies, the United States, in Pakistan, with their drone attacks there? *We* are not ‘at war’ with Pakistan. We are not bombing Pakistani people by invitation of the Pakistani government. *We*, by the way, I use the term *we* as the UK is aiding the US in its attacks, are just sending remotely controlled bombers over their country killing their people, with no legal right to do so. Before we assassinate people……or should I use the term ‘put them to death’, are they not entitled to some form of judicial process to establish any guilt? Or is it OK for governments to put people to death as and when they like with no questions asked?
Charles on September 11, 2011 at 12:55 pm
I am not prepared to get into a debate about legality, illegality and the laws which I may or may not agree with. The fact is the law is there to generally protect the members of the public. Always will there be sections of the public who believe the law should or should not be done a certain way. But as stated I am not prepared to discuss this further as that is off subject for my original post and I will admit I do not know enough about it to argue a point.
It may appear I am in defense of Mr Robinson, however I do not know the gentleman or his ‘rent a mob’ as you put it. But as a resident nearby I am worried for my property and my safety as I will explain my why below. I can not excuse the actions of aircraft spotters as I feel they are wrong to incite violence and threats but as I do not use the forums in question I can not read into the arguments put on there so my comments are related purely on what I have seen here and in local press. OK so I retract my generalization of yourselves and them but the fact is still Protests generally attract trouble.
My argument also about the recent riots has been twisted on my original words. I am not doubting why the march in Tottenham Hale happened, I am of no opinion as it is not on my doorstep and I have not witnessed the full story only what the media portrayed and I do not wish to pass judgement on something I only know 80% of. But in the general public’s mind (mine inclusive) that march which was a protest, led to rioting due to people who were not part of the protest joining in and looking for trouble. Now I am not saying you will cause trouble in or around Lincoln but if a group of people joined you and began to cause trouble for the people of Lincoln, regardless of if they are part of your group or loosely attached to you then it is you who gets labelled as does happen worldwide. The society we live in will read stories in the paper and believe to the word what is written and newspapers are opinionated as they are written by a person who will obviously have an opinion.
The original post I placed was regarding the reapers and I would like to go back to it. I do not support the US Drone bombings on Pakistan. Full stop no argument from me. What I do agree with is the use of a drone to actually gather intelligence, high res pictures of areas of interest where terrorists could be hiding or facilitating for means of terror against innocent civilians. Yes I agree the reaper should be armed, because it may be called upon to take immediate action against what has been relayed back to intelligence officers. I am also a huge supporter for using ‘machines’, Reapers, Radio Control vehicles that search for IEDs anything that ultimately will save lives on both sides of the coin. I can only guess the tech they use now is not 100% efficient but as we develop it more, the more effective it becomes and the less innocent civilians get caught up in conflicts.
I feel my points of opinion are failing as you are of the mindset they should be disposed which is your right. My right allows me not to agree with the protest, and as a result my thoughts will be negative towards you. Not hostile I will add. I will venture in to speak to Mr Robinson and hear his opinions though rather than listen to your opinions of him.
I feel any further discussions will just go around in circles.
admin on September 11, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Hello Charles,
Thanks for your reply. As the first person ‘in opposition’ to put forward any type of argument or air any specific concerns with regard to protests at Waddington I thank you for taking the time to explain your position instead of jumping on the threats and abuse bandwagon.
As you are a local resident I do understand your concerns. I should like to be in a postion to offer you reassurance but can obviously only speak for myself, and not any intellectually challenged lunatics who may turn up on either side, although from a protest side no such lunatics are expected at any stage, they have been promised from the air spotters.
We won’t agree on the issue of arming drones obviously, but I don’t disagree with their use in battlefield situations for surveillance purposes. Having lived in ‘terrorist hotspots’ myself while on tour as a dependent member of H.M Forces I well appreciate the benefits of surveillance and the thought that ‘somebody upstairs’ might know if anybody had stuck a couple of pounds of semtex under my car and attached it to a mercury tilt switch could have saved me hours of crawling under my car checking.
It would seem to me that living in close vicinity to any military base which may, subject to the whim of politicians, become involved in extra-judicial murders, residents shouldn’t be oblivious to the possibility of protests of one kind or another. In my opinion, if local residents are happy to turn a blind eye to whatever’s being done from their neighbourhoods, I can only hope they are left in peaceful oblivion and are not inconvenienced by those who aren’t prepared to turn a blind eye.
One thing which has always interested me Charles, is this; why do terrorists trying to attack the UK in retaliation for our overseas activities want to target truly innocent civilians in horrific ways when they could be heading to the military bases actually involved in killing their friends and families, etc. and reap their revenge or ‘punishments’ on the military itself?
It would seem very strange to me if local residents feared possible disruption and inconvenience from protesters more than they feared the threat of local terrorist attacks.
Thanks again for your comments. I can only reiterate that they are appreciated.
Admin.
Swifty on September 11, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Charles…And will you be popping in to listen to Mrs. Helen Johns opinions too?
Yellow Belly on September 18, 2011 at 11:59 am
I don’t have a problem with people protesting, because as it stands protesting is legal in the UK. What I do have an issue with is how protesters from the left of the political spectrum feel that in order to get their message home,it is acceptable to resort to violent methods. Yet the same people who feel it is an human right in which to oppose anything they object to: Drones,Mat, Israel,Weapons,NATO have no problem denying anybody from the opposite side of the political spectrum from having their say. Be it the odious BNP (and I have nothing to do with them) the slightly less repugnant EDL, or even a Tory minister , if any of the above try to speak in public then according to the left these people must be silenced. Yet arne’t their views equally valid and worth listening to, or have we reached the state where Free Speech is only allowed as long as it conforms to the views of the far left.
So much for the ad at the bottom of the page then.
admin on September 18, 2011 at 9:51 pm
I don’t have a problem with people protesting, because as it stands protesting is legal in the UK. What I do have an issue with is how protesters from the left of the political spectrum feel that in order to get their message home,it is acceptable to resort to violent methods.
So, let me get this right then Yellow Belly, protesters on the left are violent……..protesters on the right aren’t ? Fascinating…….
Yet the same people who feel it is an human right in which to oppose anything they object to: Drones,Mat, Israel,Weapons,NATO have no problem denying anybody from the opposite side of the political spectrum from having their say.
Agreed. They often do. Shouldn’t happen, should it? Bring on David Irving I say……and let’s go downhill from there……but I’m sure you’re confusing the ‘one rule for him and one rule for me’ thing with violence. They are not the same and the same people don’t do both. Unless you can prove me wrong? Perhaps you know a violent leftie who’s tried to silence a non-violent right winger? Who was it Yellow Belly…….come on……..do tell……..
Yet arne’t their views equally valid and worth listening to,
Of course.
or have we reached the state where Free Speech is only allowed as long as it conforms to the views of the far left.
So much for the ad at the bottom of the page then
If you’re not claiming to know where I sit in the political spectrum……..and that I refuse comment from those on any other side what’s the link between 1st Amendment’s hosting policy and your comment? Are you claiming 1st Amendment refuses accounts from those on the opposite side to them? Mind boggling!
Swifty on September 20, 2011 at 4:33 pm
I see yellow….Well actually I dont see….Who has been violent on the Waddo demo? Who is a leftie? Or is this just your right of rant, bit like a right to protest. Rant on. I’m sure the left are listening…Who are they around here by the way?
Jinx on September 18, 2011 at 7:54 pm
So do you feel silly yet? Not exactly a stellar turnout was it? So apart from Helen who else turned up – how about you Admin or Swifty (who I suspect are one and the same person)?
admin on September 18, 2011 at 10:07 pm
So do you feel silly yet? Not exactly a stellar turnout was it?
Why should anyone feel silly? Not sure I get your logic, but since you’re interested enough to try to scrounge free bandwidth off me to make silly comments, perhaps you’ve got something more interesting to add? You don’t know where George Osbourne keeps getting billions from to fill his Reserve Fund, his Special Reserve Fund, his Contingency Fund, his Consolidated Fund………or any of the other dozens of funds he keeps raiding to pay for dodgy stuff from do you? Is it existing cash already leeched off the tax-payer, or is it loans to be paid off later? Naaah………didn’t think so. Nevermind, go back to sleep and just pop up every now and then to say something pointless.
So apart from Helen who else turned up – how about you Admin or Swifty (who I suspect are one and the same person)?
No. And I can assure you I am definitely not SWIFTY! Unless SWIFTY likes roleplay and is very good at it we’re not even the same sex.
10.
Swifty on September 20, 2011 at 4:37 pm
Jinx….You think that was it son? Your a bit of a fool if you do. As to me being Helen John or the admin around here. No you tosser. But if it was true, why would it matter? I might be the pope, I’m not by the way. But carry on. As to Admin, unless admin has a pair of gonads and did time in RAF then I think your on a sticky witcket Jinx you toss pot.
11.
Haha on September 20, 2011 at 5:04 pm
Swifty getting a bit defensive and insulting at the accusation of him being Admin LOL. Tosser, toss pot? Really? Nerve touched, me thinks. BUSTED !!!
12.
Swifty on September 20, 2011 at 8:30 pm
How old are you? I’m not defensive, I’m naturally antagonistic to tossers. Which you are one of. Read the messages and you will see you cannot touch my nerve. I dont get upset, I do though recognise tossers. But please do deflect…Anything but comment on the actual subject…i do hope your not a serving member of HM forces or even cadets…We deserve so much better. Busted? Get a grip son. As for thinking or me thinks…I dont think thats possible in your case…But go on I’ll play…Do you have something to say on the subject under discussion…Heres one…Methinks..You dont…Busted. Tosser
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Been a while since I was here, I remember when it was all fields you know? I don’t know about the poster, “haha”, but I’m certainly ex-RAF – my last duty station in 2006 was in fact Waddington. Now now Swifty/Helen/Admin, there’s really no need to get defensive and start calling people names is there eh? The last resort of someone who knows they’re losing an argument surely? I wouldn’t call you names, in fact I would make sure your anorak was on properly, and even check the string on your mittens was correctly threaded through your sleeves.
So, inform us then, how many people are at this camp now? What results have you had? Has anyone noticed yet? Are you enjoying the sunshine? Managing to sign on ok? When will you be visiting Syria to protest about their government bombing their own people?
Don’t get sunburnt will you? Tata for now
Jinx,
there’s really no need to get defensive and start calling people names is there eh? The last resort of someone who knows they’re losing an argument surely?
Quite right. I suppose you imagine that anyone protesting is too stupid to be able to dress themselves properly. As you obviously wouldn’t resort to name calling I have to assume that the deficiency in your judgement ability renders you too stupid to qualify for entry into any kind of debate.
So, inform us then, how many people are at this camp now?
None that I know of.
What results have you had?
I have little idea. The whole world doesn’t report their reaction to me.
Has anyone noticed yet?
Yes.
Managing to sign on ok?
No. Gettin’ quite tricky these days. All me benefits getting cut. Govenment doesn’t wanna pay me……it wants me to go to work so it can keep stealing a chunk of my hard earned dosh to give the MoD more and more money to waste on plasma tv’s, art collections, expensive wine, more drones and refuelling tankers that don’t even fucking work. Bizarre ain’t it…….we’ve only got a couple of planes left now that might need refuelling…….and after years of trying the MoD can’t even get the refuellers right. Nevermind…….guess that’s another excuse for ‘em to get together for lush dinners at my expense to moan about how the contractors have let them down. And nobody’s screaming for Peter Luff’s head? I guess it’s just fine and dandy for our rulers and masters to keep paying themselves billions of our money to throw it away on crap that doesn’t work and treats for themselves as self compensation for their own incompetence, right, Jinx?
When will you be visiting Syria to protest about their government bombing their own people?
Not sure what your point is here, Jinx. Are you saying that I can’t protest anything that might be wrong in my own country because other governments in other countries are doing wrong? I hope you’re sayin’ something more intelligent than that?
Sunburnt? It’s hailing and thundering here, old boy. Tata for now!
hey how about we set up next to you with a banner saying get lost loser im an ex plummer who never worked at waddo but pass it daily ….our job cannot please all ..but its a fact we all do good work…. im certain you have done things in the past that has upset people as have I…I say to the guys at waddo keep up the good work lads and lasses dont let that chump in his skanky van get you down ……..in fact hey i might set up next to him playing music full blast all day and night for weeks as a protest againt idiots